Curse

Div · Nov 29, 2008, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Bomberman

[leech signet] is just an idea. no energy cost able to interupt any action. unless he wants to run a full interupt build w/ magebane (i doubt he does) leech signet is a good backup interupt to have. i find relying heavily on expertise to be ur energy managemnet is a bad choice pvp or pve.

If you still feel the need for another interrupt in addition to savage/dshot, take disrupting shot and just never use it except in the "backup" case, and bump expertise to 13, where you'll save a lot more energy than gain back with leechsig.

Comparing 13 expertise to 11, every skill you use costs 1 less energy. That's surely better than a potential 9 energy every 30 seconds, and much more reliable.

Fay Vert · Nov 29, 2008, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

I am glad my Barrage can shoot every two seconds, in stead of the five second recharge yours has. Perhaps yours can too if you capture the right one (mine is from Markis), It's really nice to have a barrage that can fire multiple times between two castings of splinter weapon. Good luck with finding a proper Barrage.

So your Splinter is up perminently and takes no time to cast? Excellent! Lets try to cut the crap and use some real numbers then shall we?

You go into combat pre-splintered, so the first Barrage hits full Splinter and then you can re-cast splinter. Your second Barrage hits full Splinter and then two seconds later you just get Barrage with no Splinter. 1 second later your Splinter is recharged so your cast it (another 1 sec) and then you Barrage full Splinter again.

So that is 3 full Splinters to one Barrage only shot at the start of the combat.

If the mobs are still around after that, and they shouldn't be, then its every other Barrage gets full Splinter with two Barrage and a Splinter cast every 6 seconds.

So a more accurate ratio of Splinter hits to Barrage hits should be initially 36 Splinter hits to 16 Barrage arrows and then 12 Splinter hits to 8 Barrage arrows.

[email protected] 36 * 41 = 1476
[email protected] 36 * 35 = 1260 => -216

[email protected] 16 * 17 = 272
[email protected] 16 * 15 = 240 => -32

[email protected] 16 * 30 = 480
[email protected] 16 * 25 = 400 => -80

So in the inital 4 shots your are better off by 104 with Channeling 12 than Marks 12

Then (if you are still fighting, and you generally won't be)

[email protected] 12 * 41 = 492
[email protected] 12 * 35 = 420 => -72

[email protected] 8 * 17 = 136
[email protected] 8 * 15 = 120 => -16

[email protected] 8 * 30 = 240
[email protected] 8 * 25 = 200 => -40

Every 2 shots you are better off by 16 with Channeling 12 than Marks 12

Stealth Bomberman · Nov 29, 2008, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

If you still feel the need for another interrupt in addition to savage/dshot, take disrupting shot and just never use it except in the "backup" case, and bump expertise to 13, where you'll save a lot more energy than gain back with leechsig.

Comparing 13 expertise to 11, every skill you use costs 1 less energy. That's surely better than a potential 9 energy every 30 seconds, and much more reliable.

at the time when i posted this, i didnt have eotn so i didnt kno about [disrupting shot]

Amy Awien · Nov 29, 2008, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

... Lets try to cut the crap and use some real numbers then shall we? ...

You were doing the crap with using Barrage only when you had Splinter up. We're talking about skills that effect adjacent foes you could hit one, or six with barrage, you could hit 3 one shot and 1 the next, and any 'splinter' could hit 1, 2 or 3 critters. Whatever situation we look at, most real situations will be different.

My example was not to prove that one or another is better, it was to show that the outcome depends on situations and how one looks at it. You do not see the exact ideal splinter situation frequently and any deviation from the ideal will reduce the effect of splinter weapon relative to other damage.

You don't need Barrage for the way you use it, take volley and another elite. If you bring Barrage it should be because you expect it to add more then volley could.

For a splinter @12 channeling it might be worth bringing a hero that can make something more out of that attribute investment, there is more offense in that line, but it just doesn't look good on a ranger.

Quote:

If the mobs are still around after that, and they shouldn't be,

Easy groups aren't very interesting, you'll get them fast enough either way and it's the situations that are not so effortlessly that usually determine the end result.

Fay Vert · Nov 30, 2008, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Easy groups aren't very interesting, you'll get them fast enough either way and it's the situations that are not so effortlessly that usually determine the end result.

These days, its only ever worth debating things for relevence to hard mode. The main place I use S/B is Urgoz HM. Its actually better with high Channeling in this situation because the armour levels of the mobs are high, so the difference in base weapon damage between 10 and 12 marks is less and you want to maximise your armour ignoring adds.

In Urgoz, everything you hit is full effect on Splinter and Barrage, so in that example with a higher Marks you get additional benefit for the extra two arrows ie. 14, four rounds of that gives you 56 extra, which doesn't much make up for the loss of a 12 channeling Splinter, which in this case out damages the 12 Marks Barrage by 48.

If we go the other way, and only Barrage 3 foes it is closer I agree, and a bit harder to work out as a single shot doesn't exhaust your Splinter you still get some splinter on every Barrage. I don't fancy working all the combinations out, I think you are still better off with 12 channeling as you basically lose 1/3 of the advantage as each shot only splinters 2 adjacent rather than the 3 previous) ie. still 50 more damage with 12 Channelling.

I do concede your point that the various situations make a difference on how the numbers stack up, but you have to be looking at what you are aiming for when you are bringing S/B. The problem is too many people bring S/B in situations where it isn't ideal. When barraging 3-6 foes, you are better off witht he high Channeling, when hitting 1-2 foes, you are better off with a different build altogether.